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#145 Attracting People Back to the Office

on Thu Jun 29 2023 00:00:00 GMT-0700 (Pacific Daylight Time)

with Darren W Pulsipher, Byron Tarry,

Keywords: #people #remoteworker #collaboration

In this episode, Darren talks to the CEO and Managing Director of GPA about the role that collaboration innovation plays in bringing people back into the office and why people need face-to-face interaction.

GPA (Global Presence Alliance) was founded 15 years ago to address the need for a better model in the collaboration space. At the time, video conferencing was becoming more prevalent, and organizations were considering a global strategy. However, they needed more options - relying on regional integrators or dealing with a complex setup that needed to understand collaboration truly.

People, Space, and Technology

GPA aimed to solve this problem by providing a comprehensive global collaboration and video strategy approach. They recognized the need to balance people, space, and technology to create exceptional collaborative experiences. By bridging the gap between different regions and understanding the unique requirements of each organization, GPA offered a better alternative to existing solutions.

While technology has evolved over the years, there is still work to achieve true collaboration. Microsoft, for example, has introduced signature rooms that mimic the telepresence room concept at a fraction of the cost. However, nonverbal cues and physical interaction are still challenging to replicate in virtual environments. As the technology advances, we will see improvements in the collaborative experience. Until then, organizations like GPA are crucial in finding innovative solutions and helping businesses navigate the ever-changing digital transformation landscape.

There still are challenges in video collaboration technologies. However, new advances in technology are overcoming some of those challenges. One of the biggest is the whiteboard brainstorming session. Due to camera angles and other limitations, integrating whiteboarding experiences into video calls is still unnatural. However, efforts are being made to create more natural and integrated expertise using AI and camera technology. Technology can provide a second-best experience; it cannot replace the personal and emotional experience of being physically in the same room as someone. This human element includes things like water cooler conversations and the ability to touch and feel objects.

Unique Business Model

GPA has a unique business model; it takes a bottom-up approach, with business units in 50 countries working as shareholders in a parent entity. This allows them to achieve global scale while maintaining cultural awareness and diversity.

When implementing collaboration strategies for multinational companies, the company takes a programmatic rather than project-based approach. They have centralized teams for account management, project management, and solution architecture while relying on regional teams for deployment and support. This collaborative approach reflects the company’s philosophy and is crucial for success in implementing complex collaboration technologies.


There was a profound shift in the collaboration world before and after COVID-19. Pre-COVID, most of our work and collaboration were done in physical office spaces, but with the pandemic, everyone was forced to work remotely. This shift in the work environment required a change in thinking and approach.

In the past, remote participants were often treated as second-class citizens, but now, with the increase in remote collaboration, the experience has become more equalized. People have gotten used to the virtual meeting experience and expect a similar experience when they return to physical meeting spaces. This has led to a demand for a better experience in the office.

The shift to remote work has also highlighted the importance of understanding human factors in the workspace. Different individuals have different needs and preferences when it comes to their work environment. For example, some people may find noise distracting, while others may thrive in an open and collaborative space. Understanding these human factors and aligning technology with people’s needs has become even more crucial.

Organizations are still experimenting and learning how to create effective collaborative spaces. The industry is also starting to focus on collecting actual data to understand the true impacts and manage the outcomes of these collaborative spaces.

The shift to remote work during COVID-19 has necessitated a change in thinking and approach to collaboration. There is a demand for a better experience in remote and physical meeting spaces and a need to understand human factors in the workspace. The industry is still experimenting and learning, and there is a focus on collecting actual data to manage and improve collaboration outcomes.

Future Vision

In the future, the office space will be more focused on creating meaningful experiences and fostering human connections. The primary attraction of the office will be the presence of other people and the opportunity to have face-to-face interactions that can’t be replicated through video conferencing. Microsoft is leading the way in utilizing AI and data to make predictions and recommendations that enhance the office experience.

Additionally, the office space will have a greater emphasis on wellness. Employees may need access to optimal furniture or amenities in their home offices, so providing a dedicated space for focused work can contribute to overall health. Sustainability is also a factor to consider, as staying at home may only sometimes be the most energy-efficient option.

Regarding technology, chat, and collaboration platforms will be crucial in facilitating communication and collaboration among hybrid workers. AI and camera technologies will enhance meeting room experiences by automating specific tasks and creating a more immersive environment. There will also be an increase in media production capabilities, with more companies creating their narrowcasting channels for both internal and external communication.

Overall, the future of the office will be a balance between leveraging technology and prioritizing human connections and experiences. It won’t be a one-size-fits-all approach but a customized space that reflects the company’s care and concern for its employees.

Bring People Back to the Office

Byron acknowledges that getting customers out of their office spaces can be challenging, just as much as it is for employees. When attracting people to a physical location, it is essential to consider the entire ecosystem of partners and customers. This highlights the need to create spaces and experiences that are enjoyable and enticing for everyone involved.

Byron also emphasizes the human factor in collaboration and AV (audiovisual) technology. He points out that his theater and stage management background has given him a unique perspective on the importance of human interaction and engagement. He believes the human factor makes collaboration and AV technology impactful and successful.

You can find out more about GPA at their website

Podcast Transcript


Hello, this is Darren

Pulsipher, chief solution,architect of public sector at Intel.

And welcome to Embracing

Digital Transformation,where we investigate effective change,leveragingpeople, process and technology.

On today's episode in taking workersback to the Office through collaborationwith special guest

Byron Tarry, CEO and managingdirector of GPA.

Byron, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Excited to be here.

Hey, we had an interesting conversation.

Where was a couple of weeks ago?

First time I met you guys. Yeah.

And you guys have an interesting approachto two things.

But before we get to talking about GPAand and all that,tell me a little bit about yourselfand your background.

Well, as as many in this industry,

I guess,came fromfrom a bit of a creative background.

So I came from a theater side of things,stage management.

And as you might guess from the accentfrom.

We're a little further afieldthan the North America.

I originally grew up, spentthe first half of my life in Australia andbut the theater world's not exactlythe place to make your fortune, I suppose.

And, and so like a lot in the industry,lots of musicians and so onthat found a way to find the creative,find the teamwork, find the technology andyou know in a day job and, and ended upin, in the audiovisual collaboration space.

So I guess that's that's mean that'san interesting backgroundbecause theater management is a lotlike collaborationin in corporate America, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

You know, particularly in stagemanagement, you, you you are controllingall the elements from thefrom the actors to the technology.


To the to the front of house and so on.

So lots of elements going on there.

And that really in many ways in thein our industrythat people space and technologyalignment is, is really thewhat we've talked aboutfor probably a decade or more ofyou have to get that balancebetween the three right to to makeexceptional collaborative experiences.

And so drawing on that,

I mean, I even had a six monthstint of studying architecturein, in, in universitybefore heading towards the theater spaceand years.

So kind of balanced all those elementsof people, space and technology I guessnow that that's pretty fascinatingbecause you run into alldifferent types of people in high techpeople with a theater background.

I never would have thought theaterin collaboration,but totally makes sensewhen you think about.

And so tell me a little bityou guys got GPA.

I mean, why why did you start GPA?

What's the whole back back story on GPAitself?

Yeah, I actually realizedlast week was 15 years ago.

It's like after I'd show last weekand it was actually 15 years agolast weekthat that the the organization began.

But it began for some context.

And those that have been around fora few years, like you and I might rememberwhen Cisco acquired a company called

Tandberg and Tambo, who one of the leadersin video conferencing.

And and 15 years ago we we figured thatthat was the the big moment.

Suddenly Ivy would go from fromthis sort of side thing not on my networkas as some of the IP convergencewas just beginning to now Cisco,a market maker, had stepped into the spaceand the boom was going to happen.

While it probably took another 12 yearsbefore

Kyoto came alongtill really that that boom occurred.

But what what shifted 15 years agowas was this collaboration spacestarting to shift from a more real estateproject centric environment?

Build a new building,woke up with some meeting rooms in.

But that was that tended to benot necessarily linked to a globalstrategy but but as videoconferencingthis was taking more hold and Ciscobrought some credibility to that.

Suddenly organizations were startingto think about a global strategy.

So obviouslythe accompanying piece for a startwas about connecting those further afield.

And and at the time,you really had two choices.

You went to a regional integratorwho kind of picked up the phonearound the world and hopedthat they might find a kindred spiritto be able to help them.

When you went to the spacethat really didn't understandcollaboration, you often actually ended upwith a room with with a roomin a box from Cisco on one endand this complex ivy on the other.

And we felt there was a better modelthat was required.

And in fact, as I was saying to youbefore, even as late as 2018,for us to do a study in suggestsof 96% of the enterprise customersthey interviewed were happy with theirtheir collaboration and video strategy.

So, yeah, whenever you seethat sort of dissatisfaction, alwaysan opportunity for an entrepreneur,for entrepreneurial ism, I guess.

Yeah,we really wanted to try and solve that.

That problembecausethe be unique and

I guess we can jump into that if you want.

Yeah I so I remember,

I remember the first collaboration room

I went into it was a Cisco roomand I was managing a team in India.

So we set it up so that the tail,it was kind of hokey to tell youthe truth.


Big screens and cameras everywhere,but it looked likeyou were all sitting at the same tablebecause they made the tablego into the screen.

The whole concept.

Yeah, but what I what I realizedwhen I actually finally went outand visitedthese people that worked for me,

I already knew them,right?

Because I was used to sitting at a table,even though it was a virtual table, was,you know, there was a bunch of lightingand everything was an unnatural.

But I knew who they werebecause I could see them.

And that collaboration really did happen.

A But that was a super expensiveand time consuming effortto put that thing together.

And, and,you know, there weren't very many,there was only one roomin, in, in California and one in

Bangalore, India.

You know, back then that telepresencepremise was a three or four or$500,000 room.

Oh, yeah,you got to get around comes aroundthose telepresence rooms had that thatthat table structure that sort of createdthe across the table model.

Well what what Microsoftnow doing with their signature roomsin the front rowexperiences is tell me exactlyback to that that same kind of premiseonly a 10th of the cost.

But yeah and well and then there's there'salso that's just non-verbal.

One of the things I really miss is truecollaboration.

We don't have this true truecollaboration, collaboration yet.

I dida whiteboard sessionwith a colleague of mine back East.

I'm on the West Coastin in the United Statesand it was still kind of hokey, right?

He was on video.

I was on video,but we wanted a whiteboard stuff andwe couldn't take the pen from each otherand we couldn't jab each other.

You know, we couldn't say, Moveout of my way, I'm going to do this part.

It's still not the same as beingin the room with each other right now.


I think this there's two elements to that.

The first, I'll say from a technologystandpoint is, is I think that'sthat's still evolving.

I mean, Microsoft came out with somea few years back and that kind ofchanged the paradigm a little bit,created a bit of a new market.

But I was having this discussion last weekactually with some of Microsoft peoplethat that that that premiseof your video experienceand your whiteboarding experiencebeing integratedin one of the front of the room is stillstill not natural because you've got theseweird camera angles and so on.

There is some work that's happeningnow amongst a number of the the,the sort of leading industryvendorsand so on that that's starting to pushthat sort of integrated experiencebetween side of wallwhiteboarding experienceand front of wall.

And there's a whole lot of stuffgoing on around AI and camera twoto sort of create a produced experiencethat does make some of that more natural.

But I think the the counter to thatand it kind of talks to theto the strugglesthat are going on in the industryat the moment is that in the worldat the moment, in the enterprise spaceof of bringing stuff to the officeas opposed to living that that experiencewe live for a few years with code isis the still an elementwhen you got to to Indiathose those years back there was stillan element of the personal relationalthere was still a missing elementthat you couldn't simply replaceby being across the across a video screen.

Whether that was going out for a beerat the end of the day,you know, the watercooler conversationor just justthat sort of emotional experienceof being physically in a room as well.

And so I think thoseare the canvas. We can alwayswe can always try andsort of createthat second best experience.

And we need to makewe need to to to make surethat we optimize that as much as possible.

But we can't lose sight of the factthat still there's still thathuman element in all of usthat that likes to touch and feel andand be in the same roomwith someone as well.

And I think that's that balancethat we're trying to,you know,still try to find a little bitbecause there reallyis no best practice in it right now.

It's also new in this postcode environment that is stilland strugglingto figure out what that mouth is.

Yeah, you keep mentioning

COVID, so let's talk pre-COVID.

When you guys were focusing oncollaboration technologies,your main customer base was all globalglobal companies, right?

Primarily trying to collaboratewith their internal and customers.

Is that what the main focus was?

Well, certainly.

I mean, GPS has being builtfrom an enterprise standpoint.

Primarily it washow do we solve this this global premiseand take the I mean, it's complexenough to deal with thatpeople space technology aloneand in a in a domestic capacity,let alone when you addall the complexities of globaland cultural and geographical and so on.

So certainly we've been built for thatat in solving that global element.

But that doesn't mean that 90%of our business doesn't come from domesticand that could be servingas an educational customer,that could be serving a sports venue,that could be serving a broadcastproductionenvironment and so on as well. But,but yeah, certainly that that sort ofcritical factor that thatthat we look at ishow do you scale this globally.

So when we first talked,

I loved your business model,the whole conceptbecause you said act globally.

No way, think globally, actlocally, right?

That was kind of your business model.


So I guess how do youhow do we leverage the modern economy?

So rather than a top downorganization of ownershipand so on, in fact, it's bottom up.

It's a little bit of

I use the the uber Airbnb analogy.

So in fact to achieve that scaleand we have a footprint in 50 countries.

In fact,what we've done is we've we've unitedwhat we call 27business unitswith that that that physical footprint ininto a global organization whereeach of those business units are actuallyshareholders in the parent entity.

And that's how we achieve that scaleand also the agility to continue toto establish footprintwhere our customers goby actually unitingall these regional organizations.

But by doing doing that,what essentially we did iswe left the cultural awarenessand diversity, the, the,the local ability to correct relationswith the that the regional stakeholders.

We all know when you push a mandate downglobally, the first thing that the regionsdo is push back and say,

Oh yeah, I've got my guy.

And so, you know, that balanceof the thinking and acting globally from afrom a strategic standpoint,but still being able to reflect thatwealth, to use that service hub analogy,the way a surface hubis going to be used inthe US is going to be very differentto Japanwhen you've got a very different hierarchyof collaborative input.

And if your fault is down from your boss'sboss'sboss, you're probably not jumping upand grabbing the pen out of his handand jumping in front ofthat that that surface hopso that, you know, that regional elementis so critical in success, particularlywhen you look at thethe reasons why we're doing this.

And that is collaboration.

That is the the, the very human factorsof how people work together.

So if if you've got amultinational like Intel, for example,that needs to put in collaborationstrategy,post-COVID, it doesn't matterwhen you would then call on thoseand I need to do itin Latin America and North America.

So all of all of them are.

Do youthen you then collaborate yourselveswith all the regional peoplesaying, here's the big account intel.

They want to do collaboration.

We want some consistent Cbut it needs to beit needs to be regionalized or whatever.

But you're really no different to I thinkin many ways

I suppose I see best practices that thatin deployment of any technology,you have a programmatic approach.

You know, it's typically not a project,it's a program because it's multiyear.

It's yeah, yeah.

You know, it's complex and,and has strategic objectivesthat go beyond just the basic scope,schedule, budget element.

And sowe would generally have a centralized teamof account managementto project managementsolution architect, service managementand so on.

And then regional projectsspin out of that and get deployed.

And then we have a

I have a central corporate teamthat that sits atop all that and buildsthe structure and the methodologyand ultimately supports the, the,whether that's thatthat central teamor the, or the regional teamin making sure that the programdeploys effectively, but thatis really critical to to success.

So you're kind of livingyour own collaborationphilosophy when you're doing thisbecause it's highly collaborative, right?

Well,it has to be, and particularly in thosewhere you've got to push upthose regionalized premises,that has to be that balancewhere the central team truststhe local teamthat they're not just kind ofbypassing the central strategyand that's the central teamfrom our standpointor the customer standpoint. Butbut but likewise that thatthe program is a failurebecause of a lack of adoption regionallyin the the outcomesthat that we're trying to seek.

So but yeah

I think that the caution is often

I get hung up in talking about thisglobal premise and I know many of youryour listeners are not necessarilyin that global capacity.

And really I don't think it changesonce you get to any sense of scale.

Does that balance where we're looking forwe actually call itthe four S's scalestandardization, simplification and speed.

But we also have to forget that we don'ttry and drive those efficienciesby forgetting thatthe audience that we're serving andis finding that balanceand having the trust between teams.

Yeah, from a global basisto to be able to recognize when it's okayto, to, to divert,when standardization is actuallyperhaps a negativeas opposed to witness a positive.

No, I really like that approach.

It is balance.

What has changedbetween pre-COVID and post-COVIDin this industry from your perspective?

Because it was it was a fundamental shift.

And how did that affect your guys'sapproach to the collaboration world?

Yeah, I mean, look, I think pre-COVIDwe largely lived in the physical spaceof the office environment and obviouslywhat happened the moment COVID hit,everyone got driven to the remote office.

And and so certainly that had to shifta bit of our thinking for a few years.

The focus on building physical spacesin the officethere,excuse me where that really went away.

But what's what's happened withthe return isis really interestingly theyou know, this premiseof not so much equality because equalityassumes an equal experience,but equity between the remote and theand the physical meeting roomspace, for example, is has really shifted.

So in the pastyou were kind of a second class citizenif you were that remote participant.

It wasn't that that that,yeah, right.

You were an outsider.


Whereas now we got so used to actuallythat experience of like you and I were,

I've got full face on, on the screenand so on.

So when we go back into the meeting roomand we stopped sending a shotof a room of seven people and,and the far end of the tableis, is a distantperson that you can barely even seefacial expression and so on as well.

It's actually demandeda different experience and ultimately,if you come to the office nowand we can talk a bit about the sort ofearning the commute premise,the reason why Iwould come to the office is

I need to expect a better experienceby coming to the officethan sitting in my office.

Otherwise, there's really no no demand toto come to the office.

There's lots of other factorsof keeping a quorum.

So one of the reasonswhy I am going to come to the officeand making sure that that experienceat the office,whether it's in the meeting roomor whether it's actually anywherein that that office environment,because ultimately anywhere in the officeenvironment really is becomea meeting space in some senses now,because that's why I go to the office,or at least a large part toto collaborate with others.

So it's absolutely shiftedthe thinking that we have to go through incertainly supportingthe remote participant, but reallychallenging ourselves to drivea better experience of the office as well.

That's going to be really toughbecause I have personalized my home officeright?

It's I got to do that,right?

So it's all set up.

I'm comfortable here.

You know, my set up, I've got it set upfor podcast hosting and collaborate.

I like my you're right.

I don't want to go in the office because

I don't have all the stuff I have here.


It's harder to go into the officeand particularly of the officesdriven to things like hot deskingand so on, which which makes sense.

But it's even less personalizedbecause I get to sit at a spacethat's got to sort of fitone size fits all.

We had a panel discussion last weekat Infocom where we had someone from UK

Design, big global design, architectureand planning firm and so on.

And and I was talking about thingslike neurodiversity,you know,kind of a hot topic these days, but,but how some people come to the officeand noise, for example, just becomesincredibly distracting to them.

And as we nowpush them into these open workspacesinstead of perhaps in the pastwhere they had a quiet officethey could work in and so on,that it just doesn't work for them.

And so you're really having to understandthose human factors in that peoplespace and technology alignmentbecome even more important.

Yet we want to create these spacesthat are that thatencourage collaboration, encourage those,those human elements as well.

And so it's, you know, it's not easy.

And I'd say that in the yeah, there isno best practice to go to right now.

Everyone's experimenting.

We've got such a short period of timesince reallythe return to offices has occurred thateven as you get outsideof individual cultures,within individual organizations, this,there's still a lot of learning to do.

And it's actually one of the areasthat I think as an industry wewe are struggling with is real effectivedata.

Look, we can measure on and often is itbroken and all those types of things.

But yeah, there's some interesting movesafootat that same flat panel discussionsitting next to I think I had both

Microsoft and Cisco marketmakers in terms of technology,whetherthat was the history of Cisco and Tandbergor more recently Microsoftand what teams has done.

But both of themin two different strategies.

Cisco with aan offering called

Spaces and Microsoft with placesare both startingto kind of step into that, thathow do we really understand the the trueimpacts, the human impacts and so on.

And they're both coming at itfrom quite different paths.

But how do we take real datato really start to understandwhat's happening in these offices,not just to sort of manage the technology,but manage the outcome, manage thethe returns and so onthat are coming from that.

I really like that.

Do you think that your guy, thatyour focus has shifted to more of that?


I mean,challenging ourselves even as toif we got the right skill setswithin some of, you know, some of thatthe traditional ecosystem of staffingthat we had things like business analystsand the ability to take dataand manage it and ultimately becomethat strategic partner to our customersmeans not just saying, here'sall the data, you got to figure it out,but but how do we take thatand leverage thatthose decades of experienceand where I guess I,

I feel we as an industryhave an advantage overperhaps the real estate side of thingsor the more traditional i.t side of thingsis that we've

I guess back to that very human elementthat we startedwith the sort of theatrical, the musical,the emotional or the we've understoodand been the expertsin trying to align that, that experientialwith the, with the practical for,for so long that I put our hand up and saywell we need to leverage that morebut we need to draw on the best practicesand convergence has been going on.

Well, the ABC convergence started 15plus years ago, but now we're seeingeven more convergence is I t are evenhaving to sort of feed into thatthat reality as welland become more experientially focused,less about the states and statesand the security and more abouthow am I actually serving them.

I might like true customer, particularlyif the complexity of technologyhas gone to the cloud and you don't needall those guys running servers and so on.

And so I, you know, I think the only worldgenerally has had to shift.


All right.

So put on your put on your future hatfive years down the road.

What does the office look like now?

Well, if I had the perfect crystal ball,

I'd be abillionaire tomorrow.

Where would you like to see?

You know, where would you like to seethe office space go To what?

What do you think would attract meback into the office? Why?

And let me tell you something aboutmy commute is across the street.

I literally in like 2 minutesfrom Intel headquarters,

I could walk if I weren't so lazy.

So forget the commute part.

What attracts me to the office?

What does it look like?

Well, I think theyou know, the primary thing that attractsyou probably is is people, other people.

But but this is the strugglethat we've got a little bit to do.

I know you're going to be at the officeand if I don't know,you're going to be that. And I'm like,

Oh, come on.

And you've got thissort of vicious circle.

And so I think about particularlywhat Microsoft isfirst and foremostfocus on on places is trying to use AI andand the mass of datathat they have from exchange,from teams, fromfrom all these other platformsand starting to tryand become more predictiveand make recommendation and so on.

But but first and foremost, it's

I'm going to come to the officebecause I know you're at the officeand we can we can sit down together.

We can have experiencesthat we can't have just over a video.

I think there arethere are other elements to that.

There's a wellness element to it.

You're sitting in your yourlittle home office, maybe notwith optimal furniture, maybe not with thethe gym, the all the other amenitiesthat that, that we often offer.

I think that there is absolutelya wellness space and let'sremember that that for many employeesthat they may not have aa dedicated home officethey might be sittingat the kitchen table,they might be seeing it.

Sometimes it is actuallyabout having that focused space as well.

May notalways be about meeting with others,but sometimes I actually just need a placeto get out of my my home environmentsand so on as well.

I mean, there's some other interestingthings that are coming out as well.

As I was talking to Cisco last weekaround the theirtheir spices premise, and that's aroundthings like sustainability.

We all think that not getting inthe car is a sustainable premise.

But when we realize that the officeis going to be heated and cooled andand so on,whether we go into the office or not,we may actually be consuming more energyby staying at home, particularlywhen the commute is on the acrossthe road as you talk about.

And so there are other factors that arestarting to come into this as well.

So I think holistically,you know, it's building that culture of ofwhy would I come to the officethat that certainly foundationallywill be about that the human impact piece.

But but but I thinkit gets more intricate than thatand and ultimately rarelyis there a one size fits all premise.

And so it's it's attractingthe different things to different peopleand making sure that the

I guess the the thethe company cares about you andis creating a space that reflects its it'scare about you as an employee as opposedto just a number on a spreadsheet.

Yeah, exactly.

Where do you see thefuture for the technology side of things?

What new innovations do you see thatare going to make it easierto collaborate with these hybrid workers,which is which is really complexwhen you think about it, right?

Some days I'm in the I'm in the office,some days I'm not.

My team is now scattered to the wind.

Sometimes we're in the it'sthis kind of mess.

What technologies doyou think are going to help with that?

Well, I think, look, you know, it'sit's it's been a hot topic latelybut anything from chat to

I generally I think isan is going to have to have have an impactbut butas long aswe understandthe impact and the role of head I can have

I mean I talk about thatthat places environment where it's goingto start to give you a recommendationand so on.

And so being that copilot with youis even actuallyto use the Microsoft term of copilotbeing that copilot with youin terms ofpractical things in in our world,

I mean, there arenarrow world of of thewe're going towe're already starting to seea new level of of experiencestarting to be drivenfrom a bit of Einsteinin camera technologies, for example.

So once you get into that meetingroom, multiple cameras andand the sort of automated producerwe've actually got quiteused to in coming out reduced eventsbecause that was kind of the waythe way we had to do itand sort of bringing some of thatwithout having to layer techniciansand people on top of it,starting to let technologydo some of the workto to enhance the experience.

The other thing that I thinkwe're already starting to see isand it wasn't necessarilydriven by by COVID, although it helped is,

I guess, narrow cast media production.

I mean, a little bitlike what we're doing today. Butwe're seeing even at amuch more higher produced level,the number of studios,broadcast studios we're buildingfor corporate enterprise, for example,whether that's out to the to a wideraudience, particularly the finance world,a lot of the banksand so on are creating their ownnarrowcasting channelsto to their that constituencyas much as it's being usedinternally to employees and so on.

So I think this whole media explosion,the media workflows that arethat are carrying the technology,that's taking complexityout of those media workflowsso that that the average personcan can create a higherdegree of engagement as yet as indeedwe're talking about for this platform.

And so I think those things are startingto shift as well.

And sowe kind of look atthe 8020 rule of this, 88% of the roomsthat we're building of thesevery standardized rooms, it's the MCI,

Microsoft, NCR, Zoom Room or whatever.

That's that's been kind of rule.

But, but the but what that's allowing usto do is take our attention awayfrom that using standardizationand so on and bring it to the 20%,which is the really impactful,important experiential related stuff.

And so so yeah, it's, it'sthose spaces that I'm most excitedabout interactivity and, and I mean,large organizationslike Intel have been building experiencesof this for years, but,but that was typicallythat the big big air experience area HQbut we're starting to see a lotmore of that distribute out to smallerrealities in the branch offices,in the regions and so on. Sowhile thatis significant,that attracts people back into the officeas well, and not just employees.

You know, we tend to look at a lotabout the attract, the employee,but what's going to attract the customer?

I know, you know, we've all found itharder to get customersout of their office. Oh, yeah.

Just as much as we have employees.

And so it's not just earningthe commute from, from thethe employee, it's earning the commutefrom, from that entire ecosystemof partners, of customersof, of everybody that we interact with.

That's important now that this is awesome.

Hey, Byron, thanks for your time today.

This was this is enjoyable

I really yeah I really like this a lotbecause we don't have to talkabout technology the whole time.

The human factor is so important.

So thanks for humanizing collaborationand AV,especially with your backgroundin theater and stage manager.

I think it's wonderful.

It's a great story, but it's a pleasure.

It's and it's a passion as I say,if you if you love what you do,you never work a day in your life.

I think you live thata little bit as well.

But certainly it's that human factorthat that makes it makes it fun everyday.

Oh, that's awesome. Thanks again, Byron.

Get down.

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